Comments on: Is being gay immoral?

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:26:15 +0000

Religion just annoys me as a whole, at least most of them. I see no reason why we continue to worship deities. There are religions far older than Christianity and far more original. And it would be ridiculous if someone argued that the sun is brought across the sky by a god on a chariot (ala Romans) and I find it equally amusing when someone wants to argue that an all powerful being exists today as well.

By: Matt

Matt — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:04:06 +0000

I would like to give my two cents worth, and say that you have no right to persecute me for being Christian, and believing what I believe in. You talk as if all Christians are this way. That is completely untrue, not all Christians go around to gays and say “you are gay, and that is wrong. Stop being gay, or you will to to hell.” I completely believe that homosexuality is wrong, but I don’t force my beliefs onto other people, I have a friend who is gay, never once have I told him it is wrong to be gay, or that he is going to hell because he is gay, or anything of the sort.

By: Jonnyk82

Jonnyk82 — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:41:48 +0000

RG – Why do you think America was founded on Christian principles? Many, if not most, of the Founding Fathers were Deists. Also, the US Constitution has little, if anything, to do with Christianity. In fact, the 1st Amendment clearly states that the United States isn’t allowed to make any religion the official religion of the country.

Religion has nothing to do with a country’s prosperity. Your statement about the lack of Christianity will turn the United States into a 3rd world country (by the way, Russia is NOT a 3rd world country) is completely unfounded.

By: RG

RG — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:30:09 +0000

“The problem arises when these Christian groups try to put their values into motion through legislation.”

This is because America was founded on Christian principles and the US constitution is based on Christianity. Furthermore, as a Christian, I believe this is the reason why America has been so blessed through the years. If you take out the Christianity from America, we’ll also end up like Russia or any other 3rd world country. The sad truth is, Christianity is a dying religion in America – at least among the locals.

By: Wondering

Wondering — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:07:42 +0000

nEo:

I respect that, the act of homosexuality is immortal, so what are gay people supposed to do? abstain from sexual acts? and the real question is, why should they do that? what kind of life will they live if they are told : Its ok that you are gay, but, its not O.K that you want to live your life.

Anybody has a good answer?

By: nEo

nEo — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:33:36 +0000

being a gay isn’t immoral, what is immoral is the act of homosexuality… this is what i learned from our theology subject… so being a gay, isnt immoral if you do not do homosexual acts..

By: Amma

Amma — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:27:42 +0000

You may have been in several countries that are civilized and don’t appear to be religious but if you dug into a deep study of their history you would find that they have been and currently are subtly affected by the religions followed by the major countries of the world. Try a trip to DaFur for instance.

By: PJ

PJ — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:16:47 +0000

Andy wrote, “If you look at many countries today in the world that are not significantly influenced by Christianity (or at least significantly influenced at their formation) most Americans would not choose to live there. We would consider it outrageously oppressive, dictatorial, and in many cases near insanity. ”

Respectfully, I find this sentiment to be woefully myopic and pariochial. I’ve been in more than a half dozen countries that do not have a significant Christian presence and none were oppressive or ‘near insanity’…

By: Andy

Andy — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:24:28 +0000

Thanks for responding.
That brings up a couple of very good questions. 1. Is it possible to separate religion from politics? 2. Would it really be good?
To tackle the first one, is it even possible to separate religion from politics? I would say the answer depends on what you define as religion. If it’s an arbitrary set of rules contrived by humans, then perhaps yes. However, you cannot extract spirituality from people, which means you can’t extract it from culture, which means you can’t extract it from politics and government.
No elected official is a blank slate when they come to the political table. Each has been shaped and molded by the environmental culture they live in and their spiritual belief system. As I mentioned in my previous response, everyone believes something, it may not be God, but they are putting their faith in something or someone. And whatever or whoever it is that they place their faith in, shapes their world view. That is, it’s impossible to be morally neutral. You may be neutral on one specific issue, but there would be some guiding principle that leads you to not have an opinion one way or the other. Their moral belief systems determine what they consider right and wrong. Therefore, when they voice their opinion, write legislation or vote for any given policy, who they are and what their moral belief system is inevitably influences their words, actions, and votes. In the end, I think it’s impossible to divide the two.
That being said, I do believe in separation of church and state. Does that mean the state should not influence the church or the church should not influence the state? The original intention was that the government would not interfere with the worship practices of the church. Many of the pilgrims who formed this country came here did so in the hopes of being able to worship God without a “state authorized religion” that would ban them from worshipping God as they saw fit. I agree with that, however, there is still overlap. If a religious group decided that “child sacrifice” was part of their worship to God, the state would and should intervene and stop their supposed worship. But where did the government decide that it would be wrong to kill innocent children? Again, a collective belief system was used to form the presiding principles of the government that decided it was morally wrong to kill. So, there’s overlap both ways. I believe that God formed three great “institutions” if you will. Family, Church, and Government. Each with particular roles that should concentrate on their primary responsibilities, however each one serves as a “checks and balance” for the other.
Now for the second question, would it be good if religion were completely extracted from government. It probably depends on what the religion is. Your premise seems to be the desire to remove Christianity as you perceive it to be a negative and restricting influence. There’s a lot of history to suggest that what you desire may not be such a good thing.
We don’t often think about what the world would be like w/o Christ, and true Christ followers. Over the last 2000 years the collective impact of those changed lives has significantly changed the world in which you and I live, all because of Christ’s influence. Despite its humble origins, the true church has made more changes on earth for the good than any other movement or force in history. Consider these few historical impacts of Christianity.
Compassion and Mercy – The world before Christ was cold and inhospitable. Scholar Dr. Martineau, exhaustively searched through historical documents and concluded that history has left little to no trace of any organized charitable effort.
When Christ and the Bible became known, charity and benevolence flourished. Caring for strangers had been virtually unheard of. Jesus parable of the Good Samaritan has had a great impact on civilization. He taught us to care for the welfare of complete strangers. And when Jesus said “I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me,” it introduced the idea of the poor being treated as if they were Jesus Christ himself. These teachings are what prompted the start of hospitals and what motivates people to this day to start charities.
Literacy for the Masses – The first printing press that could produce mass production of books was invented by Johann Gutenberg who said “I know what I want to do: I wish to print the Bible” and that was the motivation behind which the printing press was created. The roots of education for the masses goes back to the Reformation period. The reformers believed it was critical for all people to be able to read the Bible for themselves. Many of the world’s languages were first set into writing by Christian missionaries. That is still true today.
The Value of Human Life – Prior to the coming of Christ, human life on this planet was exceedingly cheap. Life was expendable. Even today, where the gospel of Christ has not penetrated, life is exceedingly cheap. In the ancient world, child sacrifice was a common phenomenon. I watched a show on PBS a few years back that made me weep and want to vomit at the same time. Archeologists were uncovering young children that had been sacrificed at pagan temples. These bodies were well preserved because the kids were put into a bag with lots of gold images, had their heads smashed in to kill them and were subsequently buried in a hole on a mountain where they have been frozen for more than a 1000 years.
What made me the saddest were how the archeologists rejoiced over their find and not one mention of the incredible fear and pain these kids must have gone through. In other places, jars have been found containing the remains of infants that were sacrificed. It wasn’t just in these situations that the value of human life was so cheap. It was cheap all over.
It was a dangerous thing for a baby to be born in classical Rome or Greece. It was common for sick babies or unwanted little ones to be taken out into the forest or the mountainside, left to be consumed by wild animals or to starve. Parents abandoned virtually all deformed babies. Many parents abandoned babies if they were poor. To those who fortunate enough to outlive infancy (about 2/3 of those born), they were considered the property of their father. The father exercised an absolute tyranny over his children. He could kill them on a whim, he could sell them as slaves, he could marry them off; he could abandon them, and he could confiscate their property. Only about ½ of the children born lived beyond the age of 8. The cheapness of human life makes it all the more amazing that God chose to enter the world as a helpless infant..
Throughout history, Christians have cherished life as sacred. In ancient Rome, Christians saved many of the babies that were abandoned. The cry went out to bring the children to the church and to Christian homes – orphanages and nursery homes were started to house the children. Abandonment went from be a part of normal everyday life to be being considered grotesque perversions. These new practices based on a higher value for human life are what helped to create the foundation in Western civilization, establishing an ethic of the value of human life that persists to this day.
The Value of Women – prior to Christianity a woman’s life was also very cheap. In ancient cultures, the wife was the property of her husband. In India, China, Rome and Greece, people felt and declared that women were not able – nor competent to be independent. Little girls were abandoned in far greater number than boys because women were “less valuable.” As recent as the late 1700’s in China, girl babies were taken out every night and left in the street or drowned like puppies in the water. Prior to Christian influence in India widows were voluntarily or involuntarily burned to death as part of their husband’s funeral. The practice, known as suttee, when translated means “good woman”. Implying that the Hindus believed it was a good woman who followed her husband into death.
These practices were only slowed after missionaries agitated the British authorities enough to do something about it. (Going on today). India also had “child widows” – young girls grown to be temple prostitutes. It was another Christian missionary named Amy Charmichael that fought this practice by weaning many girls out of these situation and into a Christian community.
In the last Century, Charles Spurgeoun told of a Hindu woman who said to a missionary “Surely your Bible was written by a woman.” “Why?” he asked. “Because it says many kind things for women. Our pundits never refer to us but in reproach.” We see in the Middle East today the low esteem given to women. Places where the gospel is not allowed to be preached.
Recently in a Muslim governed state, a woman was stoned to death for adultery – she was pregnant and unmarried, yet the man was released due to lack of evidence. Christ did an incredible thing for women, lifting them to a high level, higher than they had ever been before.
Slavery – ½ of the Roman Empire were slaves, ¾ of the population of Athens were slaves. The condition of the slave in the ancient world was abysmal. In a courtroom, it was only legal to admit the testimony of a slave only under torture, a free man’s could be admitted under oath. It was a common mark of hospitality to assign a female slave to a guest for the night, like we might set out a towel.
Over the centuries, Christianity abolished slavery, first in the ancient world and then later in the nineteenth century. 2/3 of the members of the abolition society in 1835 were ministers of the gospel. Christ valued the slave not as an animated tool, but as a beloved brother. That was a radical change.
Jesus has and continues to touch millions of individual lives over the years and transformed them. Collectively those transformations have changed the world.
For true Christian influence to be removed from politics throughout history would have resulted in a significantly different society for you and I today and for the generations yet to come. If you look at many countries today in the world that are not significantly influenced by Christianity (or at least significantly influenced at their formation) most Americans would not choose to live there. We would consider it outrageously oppressive, dictatorial, and in many cases near insanity. The Christian influence of the founding fathers of our country is well documented. The liberties and freedoms we have today are, in great part, due to the Christian morality that was brought to the table when our government was established. It was indeed a “Christian ground-zero” that did moderate our country’s moral foundation. And that foundation, rather than leaving out those who are not Christian, included all based on the Christian belief that every person has inherit value because they are a creation of God.
Your statement “Politicians make decisions that affect our entire country’s populace…while religion is a much more personal experience and needn’t affect anyone past yourself” is historically unfounded. The extraction of Christianity from societal and governmental influence would have been to the detriment of millions oppressed people over the centuries and many of the atrocities of history would be continuing to this day. Politics and spirituality are perpetually intertwined and Christian influence on governments and society throughout history has been mostly for the better.
That being said, there are dark days of the church as well, the Crusade for one and the sheepish endorsement of slavery, even by pastors, particular in the South for another. Much of these atrocities came because the Bible was ignored and man elevated “religion” above “Christ-like morality” and staying true to what the Bible says regarding church leadership. True Christ followers were either shamefully silent or were severely persecuted when they opposed.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:36:35 +0000

I think that we need to separate religion and supposed morality though. Seeking a Christian ‘ground zero’ to moderate our country’s morals would obviously leave everyone who is not Christian out in the cold, just as manufactures would be enraged if we let thieves legalize theft.

Basically that’s why I’d strive to keep politics and religion far apart. Politicians make decisions that affect our entire country’s populace…while religion is a much more personal experience and needn’t affect anyone past yourself.